Howard Menger interview 1978

Since 1983 I have been corresponding with British UFO investigator and author Timothy Good. We have exchanged data, photos, documents and ideas, especially relating to the more controversial classic contactee cases of the 1950s. My last communication with Tim was in February 2016 and since then he hasn´t answered any email. As I have received no explanation for this silence I do hope he is, as usual, busy with investigations worldwide.

Timothy Good 1998

For two days, on October 27-28, 1978 Timothy Good together with Lou Zinsstag interviewed Howard Menger and his wife Connie at their home in Vero Beach, Florida. Some extracts from this interview was printed in Timothy Good´s book Alien Base (1998). Many years ago Tim sent me a copy of the complete transcript of the interview, 26 pages. Much of the information in this interview has never been published and I don´t think Tim would mind if I share some of these unique data.

In 1991 Howard and Connie Menger published The High Bridge Incident. The Story Behind the Story. The introduction was written by Dr. Berthold E. Schwarz, MD, a close friend of the Menger family and one of the few professionals to have investigated the UFO contact experiences of Howard Menger. In a letter to me May 29, 1986 Dr. Schwarz gave his opinion that ”the contact claims of Howard Menger is far from being an open and shut or black and white matter.” He reiterates this view in the introduction: ”The time is operripe for reopening the Howard Menger file and beginning anew.”

Howard and Connie Menger in the 1950s

In several blog entries I have advanced the theory that Howard Menger was a genuine contactee involved in a psychological and sociological experiment implemented by a group of benevolent visitors from somewhere. But like many other true contactees he didn´t understand all that happened to him and also became involved with various intelligence agencies, which further complicated the situation. This becomes very evident in the interview by Tim and Lou.

At the time of the interview in 1978 Howard speculated or wondered whether the visitors he met really came from Venus?
HM: Well, I asked them where they came from, and they told the truth, but I believe it´s a possibility that I might have distorted that answer. You see, when they say they have just come from a planet we call Venus, that doesn´t mean they are Venusians, but I interpreted it as that…. But I think that I might have been wrong. According to what they told me, they led me to believe that there´s no life on any of the planets in this solar system – I mean such as we people.”

Photograph taken by Howard Menger 1956

Here it looks like Howard don´t recollect what he was told of life in our solar system and explained in his book From Outer Space to You, that organic life exists only on our planet but the space people in our solar system live in another part of the multiverse, normally not visible to us: ” "For instance, on Venus and Saturn the rate of vibration is much higher, and renders corporeal structures more tenous; and if an Earth man in physical body could go there he probably would not see some to the life forms which vibrates more rapidly than his own - no more than he can see the spiritual life forms in and around his own planet." (p. 126-127)

HM: ”I would say that it is very possible that there are civilizations that are right on this planet… that are living right here on this planet – underground. They don´t want anything to do with us, because of the radiation.

TG: So, you think that the people you met were from this planet? I´ll re-phrase that, were from a superior technology, a superior civilization on this planet?

HM: They are definitely superior spiritually, and their technology was superior, and their bodies were superior.

TG: And they had what could be construed as space vehicles?

HM: They are extra-terrestrial vehicles: they could go into outer space, yes.

TG: Yeah, but you still don´t think that that necessarily means that they came from space… Do you think they were borrowing them, or do you think they have space travel capability?

HM: There are so many theories. You see, I wish I knew one answer and one only. Wouldn´t that solve a lot of problems. But you see… this whole thing is so complex”

This discussion is interesting as Menger in From Outer Space to You was told that there are secret earth-based groups using flying saucers: "There are also space craft, though of inferior design, which are built by people of this planet. These people are in communication and in service with people from other planets. They are people who possess a high spiritual understanding and have reached an awareness of natural law..." (p. 159)

In the 1978 interview there is much discussion about the reason for the test made by the visitors in the 1950s and whether it was successful.
HM:” They said I did a good job; that the mission that they had set up and had now recorded was successful in the sense that they now know that Earth people were not ready… in other words that they couldn´t get involved with the majority of people on this planet… oh, there were all kinds of blocks: religious blocks, scientific blocks – and they did use the word ”blocks” – spiritual blocks… We´ve found now that the people are not ready for 80% of what we have to… It was a gauge to find out how people would react.”

TG: ”When were your last contacts, Howard? Have they tapered off spasmodically?

HM: Yeah, I´ve had a few phone calls though, so they haven´t forgotten me…They said that they contact me in two years. They did – phone call. That was all, very short… personal. And they said they´d call again in two years. Every two years I get a call… It seems like the same guy… And that´s what keeps me sort of on the road – that it happened, you know, And they haven´t deserted me… that it´s not a total loss. And they said they are still working, that they´ve got other plans, other places…”

From several different sources I have received information that many more individuals than is generally known were involved in the 1950s experiment by this benevolent groups of visitors and given different missions to carry out. Some couldn´t handle the situation. The test put a tremendous psychological strain on the contactees who sometimes acted irrationally and didn´t understand what was happening to them. Some lost their head in the glamour of publicity and embellished their stories with faked encounters and photographs. According to my contactee source this became the fate of the most famous of them all, George Adamski: ”… all the glory and attention of being recognized by the general public went to his head, and eventually the contacts he was getting stopped, bu the kept trying to ride the dead horse, because the fame of all of it went to his head.” (Email October 22, 2012)

My contactee source gave some further comments on this problem: ”They said to me that out of the 100´s of contacts, that every contactee agreed emphatically to carry out the specific mission given to them, but that only less than 1% of these contacts carried out that promise to them, as most of them just went about glorifying their ego´s by making books and movies or being a famous contactee.” (Email February 19, 2015).

In the interview Howard mention some interesting information he received from the visitors: ”We´re not really the body. We´re just light, is what they said. In fact, they have pictures of the soul rising from a person who is dead. There´s something in us that goes back to the All – the All-intelligence. There´s something in us that does not die. And it can go back into a new body.” As I related in my former blog entry, this is often mentioned in esotericism as a very challenging scientific discovery to be made in the near future.

Howard Menger

Howard and Connie Menger had many hard and exhausting problems because of their involvement with the visitors. If was often more a curse than a blessing. At one time they visited a Catholic priest as they thought it would do some good.
”I don´t think it did a bit of good… but the priest was dyed-in-the-wool, which I interpreted as distortions of the truth…I just couldn´t get through to him. In fact, one time he came to our house, and he brought two nuns with him, and it was really a circus, in the sense that he said that I needed help; that I´d been contacted by the devil! I laughed in his face… I was so strong after the contact in not only beautiful spiritual knowledge that they had given me… and I think that if anybody needed help, the priest and his nuns did… that´s when my wife and everybody left the church.”

During the interview Howard gave this view of the visitors: ”It´s  my opinion that they don´t really want anything to do with us, because if they did have anything to do with us it wouldn´t amount to anything but more problems, because greed is inborn in us.” Howard also mention the idea of planets as penal colonies, implying that earth is a sort of interplanetary Alcatraz: ”… our scientists are already thinking what I thought a long time ago, we´ll have penal colonies… instead of having gaols, we´ll take all the people who are mentally… murders, rapists, robbers, and just take them and put them on another planet to work out their own problems…” Unfortunately our planet earth, has been chosen as an interplanetary penal colony, so it´s only natural that benevolent visitors are very careful in their contacts with earth people.

The well meaning and naive man or woman on the street naturally ask: if this group actually exist why don´t they show themselves in the open? I think the best answer was given by the "Venusian" Bill to journalist and esotericist Paul M. Vest: "Upon your earth the mere colour of one´s skin - a slight difference of religious belief - merely belonging to a different race or country - in fact the most trivial deviations precipitate animalistic belligerencies, hideous brutalities and the bloody slaughter of millions of your fellow creatures. Can you then truly be surprised when I tell you the the beings of certain other worlds view earth as earthlings might look upon a den of deadly serpents stinging each other to death."

Many years after the active contact experiences Howard and Connie summarized the whole episode with the visitors in their book The High Bridge Incident: ”Even if they were not extraterrestrials, they were intelligent, advanced people who had a technology to be envied and a philosophy that was inspiring. Maybe, they are the prototype of the enlightened, advanced human race on earth to come. If so, we can have hope for the future.” (p. 108).

Esotericism for Dummies

During my student years at Stockholm University in the 1970s I did a rather extensive study of the Kabbalah, resulting in a short thesis on the early Merkabah mysticism, presented at the History of Religion department. As an addition to my academic studies I also read every book I could find on the Kabbalah, written by various exponents of the Western Mystery Tradition, authors such as Dion Fortune, Gareth Knight, W.E. Butler, A.E.Waite a.o.

On July 29, 1975 I recorded a fascinating dream in my diary. I found myself in an antiquarian bookshop in Stockholm. Perusing the Esoterica shelves I noted a small volume with the title For One Penny Kabbalah. A sort of easy to understand primer or in todays language,  Kabbalah for Dummies. I bought the book of course. This dream reminds me of the difficulty in suggesting books on Esotericism for those who are not familiar with the subject. As I often  refer to the Esoteric Tradition and Esotericism on my blog, readers now and then ask for guidance in finding literature for beginners.

Unfortunately I must confess that I have not found any book I can, without reservations, recommend as a beginners guide to Esotericism. Much useful information can be found in the early Theosophical (Adyar) literature although somewhat outmoded and not always accurate in detail, as it was the first public attempt to explain esotericism. The many books written by Alice Bailey, amanuencis for the Tibetan adept D.K., are a treasure trove of esoteric information but most of them are too difficult for the beginner as they are written for the advanced student. The best introduction to esotericism so far published on this planet are the books by the Swedish esotericist Henry T. Laurency: The Philosopher´s Stone and Knowledge of Reality. They appeal primarily to scholars, intellectuals and philosophers. But there is still no introduction to esotericism especially aimed at the strictly empirical scientist who demand well documented empirical data supporting the esoteric worldview. There are indications that this will be the next project implemented by the planetary guardians.

If you are satisfied with the prevalent materialist, reductionist worldview or adhere to some orthodox theology, of whatever religion, stop reading here as esotericism will for you only be intrepreted as irrational fantasies or dangerous hereticism. Better then to return to the safe world of mainstream science and the secure embrace of your church. But for the critical but open minded seeker this very short Esotericism for Dummies, with some relevant quotes and literary references, may be of help in discovering the philosopher´s stone.

Because of personal experiences, years of study and investigation of UFO and paranormal phenomena or simply by gazing at the night sky pondering and contemplating the greatest enigma of them all – the existence of consciousness in the universe – you have been convinced that ”there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy”. As a corollary to this heureka moment you have also come to understand that we live in a multiverse of sentient beings and energies that humanity on this planet are not normally aware of.

If there is a multiverse inhabited by various sentient beings of different evolution and intelligence there must also be a science of the multiverse. Which implies that it is reasonable to assume the existence of "scientists" of the multiverse or custodians of knowledge so far not discovered by mainstream science. Now you have arrived at the fundamentals of The Esoteric Tradition or The Ancient Wisdom. Standing before the portal you may open the door to a new world. But tread lightly, with care and common sense, because this is dangerous territory where it is very easy to get lost.
A stumbling block is how to discover and define esotericism? Can any teachings be regarded as esotericism simply because the proponents of some author or mystery school use this term? Is the writings of Rudolf Steiner, Martinus, René Guenon, Krishnamurti, Elisabeth Clare Prophet, Helena Roerich a.o. to be regarded as esotericism? How do you know that what I define as esotericism is real knowledge of the multiverse? The simple answer is, you don´t, as you can´t verify the information given. You can only rely on your own knowledge, experience and common sense in answering this question.

For the open minded scholar studying esotericism the advice by Henry T. Laurency should be remembered to keep a psychological balance and intellectual integrity: “Even if by thorough study you are however much convinced that the hylozoic system agrees with reality, yet you must view it as a working hypothesis... This principled attitude is necessary to avoid all manifestations of dogmatism, fanaticism, and intolerance." (Henry T. Laurency, Knowledge of Life Four, 1995, online ed. p. 29-30). This is also the position recommended by the Tibetan, D.K., in the books written by Alice Bailey: "Our attitude should be that of reasonably enquiry and our interest that of the investigating philosopher, willing to accept a hypothesis on the basis of its possibility... Those open minded investigators who are willing to accept its fundamentals as a working hypothesis until these are demonstrated to be erroneous. They will be frankly agnostic..." (Alice Bailey, A Treatise on White Magic, 1971 (orig. 1934, pp 6, 32).

Esotericism is the science of the multiverse, the knowledge of reality offered mankind by individuals belonging to the next or fifth kingdom in nature, our future in evolution. It is not some vague form of mysticism but as exact as any academic discipline.
”It is necessary to assert with vigour that esoterics is a summary of the facts which mankind has received from the planetary hierarchy and which are beyond the range of what is possible for human beings to ascertain.” (Henry T. Laurency, Knowledge of Life Three, 17.1:4 online ed).
”Esotericism is not in any way of a mystical and vague nature. It is a science – essentially the science of the soul of all things – and has its own terminology, experiments, deductions and laws.” (Alice Bailey, Education in the New Age, p. 64)

Alice Bailey

Terminology is still a great problem in esotericism as anyone can acertain reading Theosophical classics as well as Alice Bailey. Much confusion exists as terms are used which are not clearly defined and with different meaning in various esoteric books. Bailey´s teacher D.K. often commented on this issue:  ”A new and deeper esoteric terminology is badly needed.” (Alice Bailey, Telepathy, p. 131). The Swedish esotericist Henry T. Laurency has made a commendable effort introducing a new and better terminology in his works. But he as well as Bailey still use the word planetary hierarchy as the name for the organization of adepts on earth guiding our evolution. Personally I prefer the term planetary guardians or the more iconoclastic Higher Intelligence Agency (HIA). Neither does the term master appeal to me as it immediately is associated with religion. Adept or teacher is preferable as most adepts are living in physical bodies on earth and appear very ”normal” in all respects.
"They will stand forth as living examples of goodwill, of true love, of intelligent applied wisdom, of high good nature and humour, and of normalcy. They may indeed be so normal that recognition of what they are may escape notice.. I would here remind you that many of the Masters are married and have raised families." (Bailey, The Externalisation of the Hierarchy, p. 699).

Esotericism is not to be confused with the mysticism of Swedenborg, Rudolf Steiner, Martinus, etc. who built their worldviews on the very unreliable astral clairvoyance instead of information from the planetary guardians. This common mistake among mystics was explained
 already in that pioneering book The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett:
” And, you have heard of and read about a good many Seers, in the past and present centuries, such as Swedenborg, Boehme, and others. Not one among the number but thoroughly honest, sincere, and as intelligent, as well educated; aye, even learned… Tell me, my friend, do you know of two that agree? And why, since truth is one, and that putting entirely the question of discrepancies in details aside — we do not find them agreeing even upon the most vital problems..." (Letter 48).
”Unless regularly initiated and trained — concerning the spiritual insight of things and the supposed revelations made unto man in all ages from Socrates down to Swedenborg and "Fern" — no self-tutored seer or clairaudient ever saw or heard quite correctly." (Letter 40).

The intellectual and cultural elite will probably not pay much attention to esotericism until we have a breakthrough in our knowledge of the multiverse. A revolutionary discovery is awaiting mankind that will force many advanced scientists and scholars to consider esotericism as a reasonable theory, paradigm or working hypothesis.  This paradigm shift will be ushered in by science. Perhaps this was one reason that the adept K.H. already in 1882 exclaimed ”Modern science is our best ally”. (The Mahatma Letters to A.P. Sinnett, letter 11, p.63)

A very fascinating and promising prophecy in esoteric literature is that within a hundred years we will be able to photograph and film phenomena of the etheric world and other parts of the multiverse. If this prophecy is correct that would be the definite end of materialism as a mainstream academic worldview.
”Our modern philosophers and scientists are not in a position to understand the importance of hylozoics as a working hypothesis. It is not intended for them. When research has advanced so far, however, that the existence of a particular physical etheric world has been recognized and the existence of an etheric envelope attached to the organism has been discovered, so many other discoveries and so many confirmations of the facts of esoterics will follow suit that many people will accept hylozoics as the best working hypothesis. We may expect a revolutionary discovery to be made around the year 2025.” (Henry T. Laurency, Knowledge of Life Two, 9.4:4 online ed.)
”In the coming centuries, man´s normal habitat will be the entire physical plane up to, though not including, the second subplane. The forth and third etheric levels will be as familiar to him as the usual physical landscape to which he is now accustomed… Men in their etheric bodies will be noted, and communicated with, and the devas and elementals of the ethers will be studied and recognized.” (Alice Bailey, A Treatise On Cosmic Fire, p. 474).

These discoveries will slowly change our entire culture. We will finally have scientific evidence that there is no death, only a change of form. A sort of re-enchantment of the world advocated by scientists and scholars (instead of disenchantment), to use the terminology of sociologist Max Weber. It will also be realized that the Esoteric Tradition or science of the multiverse is and have always been the, more or less hidden, third intellectual force or pillar in cultural history alongside religion and science.
 

Where are the UFO detectives?

”Where are the UFO detectives?”, is the very relevant question asked by Jacques Vallee in his classic tome Messengers of Deception (p. 222, 1979 ed.). I often ponder on this problem myself when following what mainstream, scientifically oriented, ufologists spend their time on studying and publishing. Endless discussions about ordinary UFO reports which more than often prove to be misidentifications of planets, airplanes, insects caught on digital cameras  etc. or reports that have rather obvious psychological explanations. Why all this distractive activity when there are literally thousands of very intriguing close encounter and physical contact stories just waiting to be examined? The only cases that can give us actual data on the real UFO enigma.

I discussed this problem with ufologist Lucius Farish in the 1980s and we both voiced our frustrations regarding the research situation in the UFO community: ”You made a comment in your letter which should be the motto of anyone who dares to call himself a Ufologist – ”To hell with the scientists, I want the truth!”. That expresses my feelings perfectly! As you say, the so-called ”scientific ufologists” are so concerned with their ”image” that they are almost totally useless when it comes to actual research. If one already knows the answers or knows what it is and is not ”possible”, there is no need to research. It is really a deplorable situation. I have no hesitation in telling people what I think about groups and individuals who refuse to do what they should do.” (Letter from Lou Farish, April 21, 1985).

Lucius Farish 1937 - 2012 

When it comes to investigating physical contactee cases even Allen Hynek and Jacques Vallee failed as UFO detectives and simply dismissed many of these encounters with a priori debunking pronouncements. In 1967 Andrew Tomas presented Jacques Vallee with a summary of the Blue John case, which I mentioned in my last blog entry. Vallee wrote about this meeting with Tomas in Forbidden Science I: ”He told me a long, intricate story of a London woman who is said to have intercepted a Morse message between an extraterrestrial and a British physicist. She went secretly to the appointment, saw the whole thing and revealed her presence. The rest of it is an undocumented tale with the usual garbage about Aliens who come from very far away and learn our language while they sleep during their long trip. It happened in 1962 and the woman´s name was Mrs. Marchwood. I listened politely to all this, took my leave and went to catch the bus that would bring me back to my computer.” (p. 328).

What many scientific ufologists fail to recognize is that this kind of emotional response is simply a reflection of the naive new age ufologists who already know the answer without investigation. Mention the name George Adamski or Howard Menger among serious scientific ufologists and you will without hesitation receive comments like liar, fraud, cultist, charlatan etc. without much argumentation or discussion.

There are of course ufologists who dare to go beyond the accepted mainstream pathways but they are usually lone wolf investigators, not active in UFO organizations. Researchers like John Keel, Timothy Good, Ardy Sixkiller Clarke and Robert Hastings, to name just a few. They combine personally investigated data, thoroughly documented with intriguing theories. This is real UFO research, addressing the most complicated and challenging close encounter and contact cases.
As I mentioned before there appears to be several groups of alien visitors from somewhere, involved in different type of activities on our planet. Based on contactee cases I have personally investigated some are benevolent, others neutral och a few decidedly hostile or dangerous. Of the benevolent variety we find the visitors behind such names as George Adamski, Orfeo Angelucci, George Van Tassel, Howard Menger a.o.

Whether they are really neutral is difficult to surmise but in this category I would place the contact experiences of the Swedish lady Anna and her husband. A summary of their story can be found on two earlier blog entries, We flew in from the east, part 1 and We flew in from the east, part 2.
Probably hostile or dangerous alien visitors were involved in the Richard Höglund case. Gösta Johansson, friend of Richard, was in 1968 told that if he wished to become involved with the visitors it could be arranged. In an interview Gösta told me: ”I didn´t want anything to do with them. They really scared me and I said to myself. God help me if I become involved with these people”. Gösta was convinced this alien group were a kind of mafia, simply using their contactees. An interesting detail in this case is that Richard and his wife Gunvor for a short while worked in the Bahamas for Louis (Lou) Chesler, front man for the famous organized crime boss Meyer Lansky.

Gösta Johansson 1921 - 1993

The dilemma of Gösta Johansson could of course be faced by any investigator of contactee cases. And then it becomes a real moral problem. Suppose you get one hundred percent personal proof that a real contact with some type of visitors is going on. If it is a benevolent contact you don´t wish to disclose details that could hurt or complicate the contact. If the contact is destructive, going to the police is not an option. Who would believe you? I guess this is the dilemma facing the small specialized groups within the intelligence community who are aware of the situation and covertly trying to handle it to the best of their abilities.

It appears that the American ufologist Carol Honey faced this dilemma, after his involvement with George Adamski. As revealed in his Science Publications Newsletter. He was contacted by the visitors himself and came to realize the depth and complications of the enigma and the problems of communicating this to the public. In a letter 1968 to Edith Nicolaisen, founder of the Swedish publishing company Parthenon, Honey wrote: ” George Adamski went off the beam before he died and many statements he made has destroyed much of the good he did previously. I can only back up the information in his first three books and most of this I can´t back up with physical evidence. I have had personal experiences myself which proved a lot of things to me but I will not make them aviable to a skeptical public." (Letter, February 10, 1968).

Carol Honey 1928 - 2007

Books like Operation Trojan Horse by John Keel, Messengers of Deception by Jacques Vallee, Alien Base by Timothy Good and Encounters With Star People by Ardy Sixkiller Clarke ought to make ufologists aware of the real UFO enigma behind the ordinary and trivial reports. It involves so much more than misidentifications of the planet Venus or vapor trails. But to realize this and become involved with these aspects the ufologist must also be a passionate UFO detective.